Podcast

Peter Jacobs:

Welcome to Lay of the Brand, where we talk with the experts on tech marketing, creative and PR to learn what’s new, what’s working and what’s next. I’m Peter Jacobs with Merritt Group. 92% of decision makers say analysts directly shape their opinions on vendors and solutions. That’s from a new Sapio Research report sponsored by Merritt Group and Code Red.

The report also finds that analysts are becoming more and more important to cybersecurity vendor outreach programs. So how do you make connecting with cyber analysts an effective part of your outreach? And what do they really want from you? Well, to find out, we’re talking with Melinda Marks, practice director for cybersecurity at Omdia, Ashley Vandiver, who’s led analyst relations at Cisco, Palo Alto Networks, and SecureWorks, and Merritt Group’s Oliver Cowley, a key member of our cybersecurity public relations team.

Thanks, everyone, for joining us.

Decision makers need reliable sources and trusted advisors to guide their strategies and their investments. So Melinda, let’s start with you. With that in mind, how do you view your role and where do you believe you bring the most value?

 

Melinda Marks:

Yeah, being an industry analyst is a super fun role. I am new to it, relatively new. I joined, as an analyst, what was Enterprise Strategy Group four years ago. Enterprise Strategy Group was known for the bigger truth. That was kind of what everybody knew us for. They come to us for that perspective. And having been on the vendor side, the way that I see my role as an analyst, and we’re now part of Omdia, is to take briefings from all the vendors in my coverage area, become an expert. We run buy-side side research, so we are tracking trends, what tools and products people are using, what are their key challenges, and we bring that to vendors to make sure that their products match with the needs of the customers. And to me, that’s super valuable. Again, having been in the tech industry for 25 years, cybersecurity for 15 years, you need that perspective. And when I was on the vendor side, I always loved the research side, looking at what other vendors are doing in the space. For me, it was always about rising above the noise, making sure that my differentiators stood out.

With analyst relations, it was making sure I talked to analysts because they have that perspective from talking to vendors in my space to be able to give me that sounding board of, does this resonate? Is this what you’re seeing? And also to me, backing everything up with data. So for me as an analyst, what I love having been on the vendor side for so long and then coming to a research analyst firm is getting that data that’s really helpful to move the needle for strategic decisions for vendors who are trying to figure out how do I make my messaging stand out? How do I revise my product roadmap to make sure it’s meeting customer needs? All of that kind of insight and advisory services that we can use, tied to real data from running our surveys.

 

Peter Jacobs:

So it’s a learning experience for you when you’re talking with vendors. It should also be a learning experience for them, shouldn’t it?

 

Melinda Marks:

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. It’s definitely what sometimes we’ll take briefings and people see it as an exercise that they just talk to us for us to take notes. And it’s not, shouldn’t be that way. Um, I, um, advise anybody to use our knowledge, pick our brains. We love sharing knowledge. We’re also very passionate about helping the industry. again, something unique about, um, our Omdia insights and advisory services, like it’s,

is that my team, my cybersecurity team, they are mostly from the vendor side and they were practitioners having been at the vendor. they’re steeped in knowledge about tools and products and marketing positioning. it’s a good way. In my previous life at vendors, I was in communications teams, I was in competitive intelligence and market intelligence. And like I said, the, the research was, was fun and I liked it, but you kind of hit a wall in terms of access to things. You know, it’s hard to get demos and things. Analysts, have all of that access because we’re getting briefed all the time by vendors in our coverage areas. We can just ask to see the products.

To me, it’s a super fun job and that gives us that, that different vantage point. And I also just know when you’re at a vendor company—and I’ve been at big companies and startups—to know that you kind of get in this bubble where you’re second guessing me, you’re second guessing yourself, or you’re fighting some internal battles. And that’s where that analyst point of view can come in, where we can give you the data, we can tell you what we’re seeing. And what we love is to help those vendors strategically so that they have the best outcomes, that we like to talk to them about what are your goals, what are you trying to do, how can we help you?

 

Peter Jacobs:

Ashley, I’d like to get your thought on that since you have been in analyst relations for so long with so many different organizations. How are you viewing that whole connection and what it is you should be saying versus what they should be hearing?

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Well, I think it’s so very important to remember the relations part of analyst relations. That’s the critical piece. And I think that was a little bit of what Melinda was alluding to, right? It’s not just that one way conversation. It’s having a full conversation where everybody’s involved. know, various viewpoints and perspectives are so important. You don’t always have to agree.

You actually can learn so much from one another. And you have to remember these analysts are also out there talking to end users of technology and also other vendors on a regular basis. Their knowledge base is huge. It’s amazing. And it can really help in guiding you strategically of where you need to go if you’re willing to listen. And I think a lot of times people, again, forget that the listening part is very important as well. Not just hearing the viewpoints, but also listening to them and understanding how you can apply them to your own practices.  Yes, there are always internal struggles on what people think of this, what this person said or that person said, but at the end of the day, it’s just great data to take into account as you’re building your strategy, as you’re building your roadmaps. And it’s so important to bring those analysts in early in the conversation, because again, sometimes you

 

disagree on how things should go. And you can always, both parties can learn from that experience. And sometimes you come to a common agreement on, know, maybe both of you were wrong at the end of the day, or maybe both of you were a little right. And that’s just gonna help your path forward for any vendor.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Oliver, you talk to a lot of clients and they’ve all got, they’re all at different stages of their journey in marketing PR and analyst relations. What are they saying?

 

Oliver Cowley:

Yeah, so from the client side, and just to echo what Ashley was saying, and I know Melinda touched on this earlier as well, we’ve seen briefings that go spectacularly, where it’s a good back and forth, and they’re having great conversations and receiving a lot of that really critical insight. And we’ve also seen briefings where our client is so excited to get out there. They’re so excited. They have so much material to run through that they end up having that, that kind of one-way conversation, right? Where they’re just kind of running through their material.

And, I know, Peter, I know you mentioned the stat earlier, you know, if our clients and if vendors aren’t engaging with analysts in the market, they’re not only risking losing out on that critical insight, but they’re potentially leaving money on the table as well, right?

I know you mentioned over 90% of security decision makers consult with analysts when shortlisting vendors. So, it’s critical that, you know, you not only get included in those reports, but you have a good rapport with those analysts and group relationships with them moving forward.

 

Peter Jacobs:

So, one thing that I’ve seen too often is that vendors treat an analyst briefing as a sales call.

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Yes.

 

Peter Jacobs:

And I’m sure everybody here has had that experience in one way or another. Melinda, what happens when that happens?

 

Melinda Marks:

Yeah, we listen. think there’s also a lot of analysts or a lot of analyst firms do take briefings as one way conversations. We’re a little bit more flexible in that we’re very opinionated. can’t just have a one way conversation. We share our feedback, but we like that back and forth. don’t just want to be spoken to and presented to.

We expect people to ask for our guidance or ask for validation if we’re seeing similar things.  For me, because I’ve been on the other side and I’m sympathetic to presentation skills and the planning that goes into briefings and meetings, I usually listen to see the presentation because it’s good to see how the company presents itself. But that’s what I want to see from the vendors and the briefings is pauses to say, this what you’re seeing? Do you agree? Does this resonate? What are you working on? And again, that’s that back and forth.

And I should have said this earlier too, like was so thrilled to be invited to this. Like Ashley is the best of the best in terms of analyst relations, but that’s the kind of prep on the vendor side that should happen is, you’re about to present to an analyst, let’s of course put on a good presentation so they understand what we do.

But make sure that you pause for questions and let’s try to get something out of it as well. There should be, you know, on the vendor side, some after the meeting takes place. What did you think? How did that interaction with the analysts go? What do you think of that analyst? Definitely no. The ins and outs again, having been on the other side of briefing as many analysts as possible. And there are some that you will brief as an exercise. Maybe they’re just maybe lesser known and don’t have as much of wide reach.

And then there are the ones that you feel like they get me, I wanna work with this person because they can help me tell my story. They’re gonna do research that’s gonna help me. They’re out there evangelizing the right things that I want my company to also be supportive of. So that’s what should happen with those briefings is more of that interactive. And again, we talked about the relationship building that’s so important rather than just an exercise of a checklist. Like, let’s just make sure I check off. I brief the analysts, but there’s no back and forth or feedback.

 

Ashley Vandiver:

You know, just to that point, Melinda, it’s vulnerability, right? It’s showing that you have vulnerability and you’re open to other perspectives. And I think a lot of vendors fear that vulnerability of not having everything so perfectly wrapped up in a bow. And so it goes into that more of that sales, salesy kind of pitch.

 

Melinda Marks:

Mm-hmm.

 

Ashley Vandiver:

And that’s a miss. That’s a huge missed opportunity,  not only for the vendor, but for the analyst. You’re not giving that analyst an opportunity to really know who you are. And I always say again, the relations is the biggest part of analyst relations and knowing the people behind the technology is very important as well and trusting in that. But with that comes a lot of vulnerability. It does. And you have to embrace that and be okay with moving forward, with not always having all the answers and it not being in a perfect bow. And because I think the outcome is so much greater when you go in with a little bit of that vulnerability and willingness to hear the critical constructive feedback.

 

Melinda Marks:

And again, we love that. Like we love if you say, I’m really puzzled by this, how should I present it? We love untangling those messes because again, we used to, we’ve been on that side. So that’s something we thrive on.

 

Oliver Cowley:

Yeah. And that, aligns a lot with, you know, the conversations that, our team has with our clients, right? you, we, we tell them all the time, don’t forget the human aspect of this. And as, elementary as that sounds like, you know, engaging with analysts beyond just like a, Hey, I’m going to present this to you. And like, hopefully you include me in your report, you know, like having, having additional details and, kind of asking for those additional details beyond, just what you have in your, in your deck that you’re running through is so critical.

 

Um, you know, and getting that critical insight and, some of the best briefings that I’ve been on have been the ones where, you know, I’ve, I’ve told my clients, you know, just go in there and like stress test your messaging and ask, ask for input and, and really get that candid feedback, um, to, drive, uh, your company forward.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Those were the best interactions I ever had with analysts where I went in there not feeling all cocky like, hey, I’ve got all the answers right here, but more going in saying, here’s our direction. Here’s what we’re trying to accomplish. But you’ve got a much bigger perspective because you’re seeing what everybody’s doing. So beat it up. Show me where I’m missing something. Also show me where I should maybe double down on something.

So Ashley, how do you prepare for an analyst briefing?

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Well, I think it depends also on personalities that you’re working with internally a lot of times, know, people.  You have to make people feel comfortable in the uncomfortable.  So, preparing people to listen, to listen and be open. Think I’ve talked a lot about that and Melinda’s talked a lot about that and Oliver. It’s so important to have, take a breath and focus on what somebody else’s perspective may be or opinions may be and see how that might apply.

So, I’m always just telling people to go in, shake it off, go in with not any real expectation except that you want to come out of it with a good conversation and that both of you leave feeling fulfilled in some way that each of you have learned something on both sides.

I also advise that it can’t be just that one way conversation. It’s got to be a collective conversation that’s so critically important because you’re not going to get the value out of it as you can. And I also say there is, you you’ve heard it before, death by PowerPoint. Put down the PowerPoint tool. It can be very useful.

But I think demos and actually showing things in real life, what they’re having, how a customer would experience something.  Also bringing the customer experience to life for the analyst of how they will see the world through using your products is so important, as well. So when you can have those details in there and again pausing and having a conversation and also pausing to listen is really, really important. I think some of the best compliments are when you get through with presenting to an analyst and then a few weeks later you have an analyst coming to you saying, I have a great viable lead for you. I believe in what you’re doing. And I have referred you to somebody that is looking for things that you may be able to satisfy in their infrastructure. That’s a big, huge compliment because they trust. They trust. And it’s not just, again, about the technology. It’s about the people behind the technology. It’s very important.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Oliver, tell me about how you’re advising clients to prepare for analyst briefings. And then we’ll talk bigger picture about building an analyst program in the first place, but at this micro level, they’ve got a briefing lined up because you’ve done your job and made the connection. But how confident are they at that point if they haven’t done it before and how do you get them confident?

 

Oliver Cowley:

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, I would say that really depends on the stage of growth that the company is in, right?  you know, I think I’ve had analyst briefings that look entirely different based on if you’re a super young startup versus if you’re a well-established company, you know, a well-established company that may have their messaging fully built out and they have a whole analyst deck and they’re ready to go.

My guidance to them is exactly what Ashley said, you know, have a conversation, keep it open, you know, be, open to that feedback and um, you know, to that point, maybe if a company has been doing things a certain way for, for 20 years, it might be time for a change. Um, you know, and being open to, to hearing that feedback.

And for young startups, you know, my, my general advice is, um, you know, as you’re ironing out, ironing out these details, um, you know, go in there and stress test messaging. know I mentioned that before, um, you know, get active feedback on, on what it is, um, that, that you’re saying your product does, or the solutions that you have that you’re bringing to market.

Yeah, I think that’s really core cause, uh, cause an analyst may have an entirely different vision for what the solution set could be as opposed to, you know, what the founder or, um, you know, the current C-suite believes that the solution achieves. So, uh, being open to feedback generally, um, as well as, uh, you know, going in there with an open mind and having a, having a broad conversation, I think is my best advice.

 

Peter Jacobs:

So here’s a scenario. We’ve had the briefing and maybe it doesn’t go so well or maybe the report ends up being, yeah, I don’t know if these guys are really ready yet.

I want to hear this from both perspectives. Actually, Melinda, let’s start with you. If that is the situation where the story you’ve just heard just isn’t fully baked, what do you believe the next step is  for you to do and for that vendor to do?

 

Melinda Marks:

Yeah, and just again, in our, my type of team, if you brief us or work with us, we don’t do the vendor rankings. That’s, again, a specialty of our group is we’re not judging you or not trying to rank you or trying to understand what you do so that we can help give you interesting data that would tell your story or for us, we each have kind of a thought leadership platform of key things that we think are important to the industry. those are things, you if you’ve prepped somebody to talk to us, you might want to look at some of the blog posts that we’re making on our points of view.  But we, as part of Omdia, they do the rankings and things like that. And I have definitely been on the other side, on the vendor side, with the rankings and the ups and downs of it.

You guys have probably seen the video of somebody getting dragged for not getting a top position in the Gartner Magic Quadrant. I’ve been there, done that. So, the big thing is to, again, build the relationship with the analysts. Understand what you’re getting into if you’re going to participate in some type of vendor ranking or vendor evaluation.  Think strategically about that because it puts you on the map.

But you have to be realistic about, well, if I don’t, if I’m not the leader or I’m new in this space, it gets me on the landscape so people will consider me in the buying process for a certain category or kind of topic.  But you have to be realistic about that and set those expectations internally.

I’ve also seen problems where on the analyst side, again, I’ve made the top-ranking analyst firm and not to speak ill of my competition, but I did go through an experience where they rated us low, but it was because of a mistake on their side where when they interviewed our customers, they had the wrong ranking system. So, one was supposed to be the best and five was the worst and they had swapped it. So, our ratings came back low, but we had given them customer references and we were kind of shocked. And then they had to, we had to fight them about it. And then they eventually did a mea culpa and came back to us.

But that’s the type of thing you have to internally set expectations and then work closely with the analyst firm on, understanding what the report’s going to be about and going through their process. Every analyst firm’s ranking systems are different and just, you know, go through the process. And when, when it comes out in general, any analyst data or report that comes out.

We want to see vendors using that for marketing as much as possible in an informational way to help people understand what they should be looking for in solutions. So, what we want with all these reports is to be helpful to buyers and people considering software decisions. So, that feedback is important.

Accuracy is important. Again, the communication back and forth is important and we strive to do our best. Like no one’s perfect.  And yeah, we don’t want to get screamed at for having somebody unhappy with a result, but you know, we try to back it up with data and process.

 

Oliver Cowley:

Yeah, I think that’s a really good point that you made, Melinda, and a really interesting case that you mentioned. And that’s why we typically encourage, if you’re building out an AR program, to limit yourself with the analyst houses that you’re briefing. Casting a wider net to get additional feedback, right? I liken it to, if you have an analyst briefing and it doesn’t go so well, it’s like having an injury, right?

You want to get that second opinion to see if, all right, am I really hurt or do I need, you know, is there some sort of mistake that was made here? And then having that transparency and that vulnerability that you mentioned, Ashley, of, you know, saying, you know, maybe we could be doing this better and maybe that’s valid feedback and taking that in stride.

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Yeah, and just being invited to the party is the goal, right? I mean, it should be a goal because not everybody gets invited to those evaluative reports. And it’s important to remember that. It’s important to remember you’ve gotten that far. But of course, if someone’s looking for that dot in the upper right corner and they don’t get it, of course there’s going to be disappointment. But there’s reasons for that.

And you have to really turn the mirror on yourself and say, let’s really think about why we got where we are. And it could be, maybe you didn’t prepare enough for the evaluated process.  Maybe you didn’t prepare enough for a briefing. Maybe you didn’t have the strongest or that the customer references like you should have, or had the right customer references for the discussions.  But I think too, people need to think beyond just the report process. It is a 365/24/7 job. It is something that you’re constantly working on. So once the report process stops, you start the process over again immediately. It’s about making sure that the analysts are kept up to date on a regular basis with your technology and what you’re doing, what your customers are saying about you. And that starts early.

And that’s where the success begins because a lot of times you can overcome those challenges or cautions that you get in these reports by having that relationship over an extended period of time, bringing the analyst in as those consultants that they love to be. know Melinda was talking about how you love to give your opinions and your thoughts because you have some really great ones and it’s important to take advantage of that and learn from that. And that starts early.

So it’s not when that quality, you know, that qualifying survey comes out, it’s well before that, that you should be engaging. And also too, we’re not always going to be the leader of leaders, right? And every report. And it’s important to set expectations internally about really realistically where the technology sits from a competitive situation.  And that’s a lot of internal discussion and soul searching a lot of times as well, and putting down the Kool-Aid and really realizing where your technology sits in the stack.

I think too that it’s important to remember that those interactions that you have, that you should really be focusing on if, with the analysts throughout the year that there are cautions, how are you leaning into that? How are you also accepting the fact that maybe the analysts gave you a bad score in one area that maybe you don’t agree with, but prove it, right? You have to prove it. It’s the, the onus is on you as the vendor to prove that you are succeeding in areas that maybe they’re not seeing. So maybe it’s missed information or a missed opportunity. But

It’s really, again, just all about that communication and making sure it’s an ongoing cyclical thing, that you’re getting the feedback, that you’re learning from it. And again, sometimes you’re going to agree to disagree, and that’s okay as well. And you just have to, again, set expectations internally. And most importantly, set expectations with your field. You know, want to make sure that if a report comes out that is not to your liking or to where you feel that you are, that you’re arming your sellers with the right messaging and how to talk about that in the market.

And to Oliver’s point, casting that wider net of different folks that you talk to, because all of the analysts have different perspectives and being open to that and listening to that, because a lot of times that can also help. If you’re not succeeding maybe with one analyst that maybe not see eye to eye on how you are moving forward with your vision, but you feel very strongly about that vision, there may be another analyst that has that perspective and can help you in that journey. So it’s important to explore various options.

 

Melinda Marks:

And I’d also just double back on the whole relationship building and full cycle part because I think that’s part of the difference between good and great is ideally if you’re talking to analysts and you’ve built that relationship when they’re working on the, for us, for buy-side surveys, we’re basing the questions on what we’ve heard from vendors. If they’re doing a rating or a ranking, then they have to build out their specifications and what the requirements are, and they’re going to base it off of those vendor interactions. So, if you’re engaging with them early, you are shaping their perspective.

And that’s, that’s again, what you want to do is you want to help work with the analysts to educate them, and as well as them working with you and giving their insight. It’s a back and forth, again, building, full cycle. The better relationship you have, the more you’ll be set up for success in these industry rankings and things like that. I know there’s like a lot of work for marketing when they try to do things like category building or, you know, what are our unique value propositions? We’re trying to build this new category. We want to be the top in this category if we establish it.

That is a lot of work and it comes with, you know, a lot of analyst engagement from the early stages from, you know, when you’re small, to just building up that story with the analysts. And ideally, a good program helps the analysts shape their research plans as well.

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Yeah.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Oliver, we’ve all been talking quite a bit about building an analyst relations program. I’m curious if any of the research report tells us something about what should go into one.

 

Oliver Cowley:

Yeah, definitely. I’ve definitely seen that before where clients will share with us a research report and vice versa of what we’ve seen and what relevant research is kind of out there in the market. And that’s definitely informed kind of, all right, well, what direction do we want to go now? Like what category is rising? Maybe we want to get more in this AI enabled category or something along those lines. those definitely have a symbiotic relationship. And I’m spoiling one of my future recommendations here, but kind of breaking down the silos between your AR and PR program.  We’ve seen that with vendors in the past where AR and PR are very siloed, where you have analyst relations and that’s all this person does, right? And then PR is like over here doing the media.

Um, you know, we’ve seen those, uh, AR and PR play off of each other beautifully before, um, where, know, you get some really valuable input from, um, from analyst briefings that are, that are relevant for, um, for media activity. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve even, uh, you know, pulled out some pitch angles from, from analyst briefings and stuff like that. So it’s a symbiotic relationship. Um, and it should be, it should be very flat. Um, you know, if you, if you want both programs to be effective, they have to play off of each other.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Well, it’s interesting because it’s a lot like the relationship between marketing and sales, which frequently is siloed. Ideally a vendor is in total alignment and to end, we all know the reality of that, but that’s what’s going to help make an analyst relations program successful. Ashley, has that been your experience?

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Yes. Absolutely, absolutely. And just what Oliver said, you should be best friends with PR. You should be best friends with them. Talk to them regularly. Understand, too, what their press is saying. a lot of times, Melinda has been incredibly helpful over the years and is wonderful offering to speak with the press about launches and things that I’ve been a part of.

And that is really important to have that third party validation. It’s great when you have that relationship with PR that they’re thinking about you along the way when they’re building their plans and how you can have that symbiotic relationship of really relying on one another.

Because you can, like Oliver, said, building pitches off of what you’re hearing and some briefings and inquiry calls. That’s wonderful because those are really, really getting down to the core of what customers want to hear about. And  I definitely think it’s very important to have those relationships internally as well.

 

Melinda Marks:

Yeah, we’ve kind of seen the problem with the opposite too, where PR and AR are not siloed at all. And then they brief us analysts as if we were reporters versus analysts, because it’s just sometimes PR agencies will take analyst relations and they don’t realize it’s completely different. So what we like is if you can brief us on an upcoming announcement, we are happy to give feedback on what would, again, from our vantage point, we can tell you if you, if you say we’re the world’s first blah, blah, we can say, yeah, maybe you shouldn’t put that because I know three other vendors doing that. Or, you know, we can help sanity check some of that and say, actually, what really stands out is this and we can, we can help you with that. Again, help you with pitches and things like that. So ideally you brief the analysts early to help shape the release and the strategy for, your press strategy. And again, like.

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Yes.

 

Melinda Marks:

I did this in my communications career on the vendor side a lot, which when I ran product PR, I was in PR, but I was best friends with AR to make sure we were briefing the analysts early. The press release was the best it could possibly be based off of really smart people giving us feedback and input and also supporting quotes and things like that if we needed it. So, there is a difference. And again, let the analysts help you with that versus seeing it as just, “We’ve got to pitch a bunch of analysts and press and hit them and check them off of a list.”

 

Peter Jacobs:

They are separate, but related and adjacent disciplines. And Oliver, I know this is what you were alluding to, because we know that at some organizations, analyst relations fits under PR. And that doesn’t seem like it’s the most effective way to do this.

 

Oliver Cowley:

Correct, yeah. I would definitely say it’s more of a balance between analyst relations and PR than it is like AR feeding into PR, PR feeding into AR. And Melinda, that’s a great point that you made, right? Where I think a lot of PR firms do fall into that trap of pitching analysts as if they’re press and it’s an entirely different relationship.  It’s more getting that feedback while things are still in development rather than, you well, this is all polished in live, you know, do you want a briefing on it now? You know, it’s kind of, it’s interesting looking at that dynamic and striking that perfect balance of, you know, getting that appropriate feedback as you’re progressing. And then once it’s live, you can go out to the media.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Okay. I want to take the conversation in a different direction, but it’s something that I know is a big deal in the industry right now. And that’s the trend of content creators and influencers who want to be seen as analysts. And a lot of them use a pay for play model. And some people might say, well, you know, if you’re a, a client of an analyst firm, isn’t that the same thing?

Let’s talk about how this impacts people looking for actual information clarity. Melinda, let’s start with you.

 

Melinda Marks:

Yeah, I think to me when I was on the vendor side, I had a good idea of which analyst firms were more pay to play versus who were respected in the industry. think that’s a good thing about cybersecurity.  People is that we are all skeptical and don’t like anything that’s too pushy or overtly marketing. There’s a lot of analyst firms that give, a lot of awards, participation trophy awards, a lot of that. And what happens is, and this is strategic decisions on our side as well, is, I mean, you have to realize we do, analyst firms, do run a business, there is a pay for play element in that people buy subscriptions, they pay for access, they pay for our time.

But what I stress with my analyst team and what I would say for the vendors is to make sure the objectivity and the credibility is the best. For my analysts, we focus on just being the best analysts and being knowledgeable. We try to do a little bit of the separation of church and state of, know, if it’s a sponsor or something, we’re not gonna give them special treatment.  You know, we take inquiry, we have different relationships with our clients.

But we try to keep our objectivity. We’re very startup friendly. very, we love working with underdogs who may not have budget to pay us for a lot of services and that’s fine. We will still champion it. We also, one thing I always tell any company is that as analysts, we’re just very busy. Like to us, our priority is furthering, helping the industry based on our learning. So, we’re trying to do our best at sharing information and

If we do have a lot of project work, paid client work, we are too busy to blog on key topics. But if vendors are putting out that content, we’re very happy to share it because it’s stuff that we would write if we had the time. And again, that’s all free. I just think about the credibility of the analysts when they are paid to play. I don’t think people take them as seriously, some of the kind of bogus industry rankings, because people participated or sponsored.

This is one reason, you know, my group, we stay out of the vendor rankings and things. We don’t want any bias, but we also have Omdia, the side that does total addressable market and universes, which are the vendor rankings, but we try to keep it completely separate. So if you’re a sponsor, it should not affect the outcome of those reports. We try to be as objective as possible.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Ashley, if you come across these solo practitioners who want to be seen as analysts with the same sorts of resources as Melinda is talking about.

 

Ashley Vandiver:

Absolutely. And I think it is about credibility. And it’s not saying that these folks that are these independent analysts are not credible. There are some really smart people out there. But you also have to understand the impact and what the content that they’re putting out and what it really is about. Because a lot of times it is pure play, pay to play opportunities.

And that’s OK. That has a place. I think it does have a place. I think it’s more on the marketing side opportunity. It’s another data point. It’s another marketing piece that can be used in a collection of promotional assets.  But do they have the weight of some of these larger, more established, known, non-biased third-party entities? No, absolutely not.

And you have to be aware of that and you have to understand what you’re buying into and what you’re spending your time on It’s not necessarily a lot of these folks to have very large social platforms And they can be great at amplification  but There is a line of where that credibility is and you you have to really make sure that it’s resonating with the right folks because you you want to make sure you are putting those precious dollars where they need to go, where it’s really going to make impact on revenue, right?

And that’s what we’re talking about here. Analyst relations directly relates to revenue.  It is definitely a key point of the C level of how they’re making their buying decisions nowadays and has been growing in that aspect. So you have to be very aware of that. So I wouldn’t discount those independent analysts because I definitely think they have a place in the conversation. But you also have to understand where that place is and how does that fit into your bigger strategy and your plan and your program, your AR program.

 

Oliver Cowley:

Yeah, there’s definitely a growing trend of these influencer analysts types. And Ashley, as you mentioned, they’re great for visibility, right?  it’s definitely kind of the bridge between AR and PR  re those influencer types who have their own following on social. at times, as you mentioned, Ashley, that can be a rather large following.

Personal opinion, it’s great for brand awareness, it’s great to get out there. But at the same time, you do have to be strategic with your spend behind those and acknowledging and evaluating, is the audience of this influencer really my ICP or am I missing the mark a little bit in favor of just an influencer who has a lot of followers? So trading that off a little bit and evaluating where, where do I realistically want to be  as well as well as where I can feasibly end up is a good question to ask.

 

Peter Jacobs:

And Melinda, some analysts are positioned as influencers or they’re positioning themselves as influencers and speakers and authors and all the other. What is appropriate for an analyst to do in that respect?

 

Melinda Marks:

Absolutely. Yeah, for us, again, we are a little bit different in that we don’t do the vendor mentions as much. We do blog. We’re part of Informa TechTarget. So we also help with content and assets, again, go to market services. So we do have a wide reach and that’s one of the benefits of our analysts is we have a wide reach and we do have a lot of influence and we measure our success by how influential we are. There’s analyst relations rankings, where they will say which analysts are the most influential or you know, they rate us too and we’re very competitive. We want to be rated at the top. So we will blog, we will do press mentions and things like that.

Again, like we try to have unique points of view that are different and not just a lot of analysts or just academics who run research studies. We really see ourselves as very tied to our industry and moving the industry forward. So to us, that’s important for us.  But again, it’s bias. You want to be very aware of any perceived bias. If you work with us, even if you got an asset from us, which uses our data, we have review cycles with the client and they’ll give us feedback on whatever paper or report we’re doing.

But we always say, like, we have the right to reject that feedback because we take it very seriously that we don’t want to put anything with our names on it, that we wouldn’t say ourselves. So, you know, the, again, not great marketing team, might go in and try to edit or what we hate is like sometimes marketing teams will go in and put a word salad, suggestion in what we said. You know, we, we are.

We are very careful writers. don’t use AI. We write and we use our data points and we select our words very carefully. So we take that objectivity, the respect for our objectivity very seriously. we, again, we try to cover all vendors, whether they’re clients. I talk to any vendor about any of my research. I still want them to give me feedback to help me with my surveys, whether they’re a sponsor or not, or whether they’re a client or not. I want to…

I take my role as an industry analyst and somebody  who people look to for real information. I take that very seriously. And I also, I try not, I know there are some who they just think every word that comes out of their mouth is brilliant and they’re so smart. They’re big brains. They know everything. But to me, I always bring it back to the data. I don’t like to just say something without data points or reasons for it. So that’s what we try to do through our buy-side research.

 

Peter Jacobs:

Excellent. Ashley, any last licks?

 

Ashley Vandiver:

You know, I just would say to all those AR professionals out there, it’s not easy, especially in this day and time. You have a lot of different dynamics that we’ve talked about throughout this episode. I think take a breath and pat yourself on the back because it’s not easy work. ⁓

We’re managing a lot of relationships and egos and opinions on a regular basis, but be true to yourself and make sure that you’re also, I think it’s very important that you’re absolutely true to the organization you support, but you also have to be very true to the analyst community. You owe that to them  as their conduit into  these organizations that we all work for.

And it’s important to make sure that you’re not always having the rose colored glasses or drinking the Kool-Aid as well. And I always say AR is usually not the most popular opinion in the room or voice in the room, but be okay with that. Be okay with that because you are doing a great service to your organization when you do that.

 

Peter Jacobs:

I’ve been talking with Melinda Marks, Ashley Vandiver, and Oliver Cowley. Thank you all for being here.

 

Melinda Marks:

Thank you so much.

Ashley Vandiver:

Thank you. This was great. Thank you.

Oliver Cowley:

Thanks for having me.

Peter Jacobs:

And thank you for listening. To download your copy of the Merritt Group/ Code Red cyber analyst report, you’ll find the link on our show notes page. Lay of the Brand is brought to you by Merritt Group, an integrated strategic communications firm that blends the best of PR marketing and creative to help our clients tell their stories and build business. Got a topic suggestion or want to share feedback? Subscribe to Lay of the Brand on your preferred podcast platform and leave us a review And please spread the word and tell your friends and colleagues to tune in as well. to learn more about Merritt Group and the show,  check out layofthebrand.com.